Telling the Truth III: Facebook Time with Pete

The following exchange was a "chat" I had with my son, Pete Hanson, on Facebook on Sunday, August 7.
Pete Hanson
Question. how would you respond to this comment then?
“Jesus IS pure myth...you are absolutely correct and bolstered by the FACT that there is no historical account or records (and there are many that exist today from this time) from the purportedtime of Jesus that mentions, Jesus, his family and family business, the apostles, any of the miracles or any births or deaths regarding all these people. Not to mention, No business licenses, No travel permits, No tax records, No homes of record, No birth certificat­es, No death certificat­es, no newspaper accounts, No accounts by popular journalist­s (scribes) of the time...jus­t No No No No No. NOTHING”


Pete Hanson
just a question
it wasnt my response, but someone elses


Thomas Hanson
Nope. None. No paperwork. I guess I must be totally stupid and have wasted my life because we can't find Jesus' birth certificate--Obama's either, I hear. Thanks for setting me straight and putting me back into reality. Again, I'll ask you to consider the lives of people you know, Jon Bean, Bill Sanden, Andrew, Bishop Mark Hanson. Maybe you could look into their lives to see Jesus rather than musty old government records. Just askin'.


Pete Hanson
if youre writing a book email to me.
wow


Thomas Hanson
No book. Just a post card. Books won't convince you but maybe the lives of others will.


Pete Hanson
im having a simple debate.


Thomas Hanson
Me, too.


Pete Hanson
but youre obviously taking it way to personal.
you believe what you want. im not knocking it. im just stating what i believe.


Thomas Hanson
Then why be so harsh on those who express their faith in ways that are loving and caring? Go ahead, rant and rave against the fundamentalist haters who warp the gospel, but consider the benefits brought by those I have mentioned. They deserve no anger from you.


Pete Hanson
there never has been any anger from my end.
im just stating what i believe.
and on michaels post he's asking a question and i answered how i believe.


Thomas Hanson
Rather than demand that faith play by modern, secularist philosophy, let's try to have a discussion starting from faith's perspective that without a saving God, we're in one hell of a mess. What if you give me three legitimate PROOFS for God's presence? I understand your perspective pretty well. Maybe its time for you to see things from my perspective for a little while.


Pete Hanson
I did look at your prospective for the last 25 years
and im not just talking about christianity, im talking about religion as a whole


Thomas Hanson
No, you fought it. But what I'm asking is that you "walk a mile in my shoes" first, understand the argument from my side. That's always a good place to begin in any discussion.
I don't believe in "religion." It's too self-centered and destructive. All I know about is the loving, forgiving faith I have tried to express in my preaching and life. I can't debate from "RELIGION'S" perspective.


Pete Hanson
i do understand your argument. religion gives you a purpose. you dont need to be religious to be a good person. and i think you know that. being religious, doesnt define you as a human. you, yourself define you as a person. no god, religion or anything but yourself
i dont need to believe in a god to be loving, faithfull or forgiving. thats who i am as a person.


Thomas Hanson
Yes, you are right. You don't need religion to be a good person. All I am saying is that I have found purpose and meaning in my life through Hebrew/Christian scripture and the faith traditions that have grown up around them and their central story. I know I can never argue anyone into believing. I can give no proof or evidence. All I can say is "It works for me," and I think it might give you the same purpose, meaning, and peace that it has given me. I am just a witness to my faith, not its guardian. My faith pulls me out of myself and points me toward others who need they help and care I can give and I do that not to earn God's favor but because I want to follow the lead of Jesus, who is God with us. (Sorry, I started preaching there.)


Pete Hanson
im totally fine with that, that it gives you purpose. but for me, im the complete opposite. and like you said, i fought it pretty much my whole life because i probably never did truly believe. heck, i remember getting basically bribed into getting comformed. i think thats how you spell it. but anyways. im gonna head to bed. i had a long day of walking around minneapolis between art fairs


Thomas Hanson
I have to go to bed. I am indoctrinating 7 kids this week in Vacation Bible School. Maybe the problem is that you thought you were getting conformed and not that you were confirming your faith. It makes a big difference. When you are conformed you are pushed into a mold. When you confirm your faith, it is something you do. G'night. Thanks for the chat.-- but you still owe me three "proofs" for God or faith in God. Love ya.


Pete Hanson
three proofs?
there are no proofs.
whatever
good night


Thomas Hanson
No! I want you to think about what might be three proofs from my perspective. You can't just stand there and say No. You have to explore all perspectives. Okay. on the count of three, both of us are going to sleep. I will say, One, Two, and you say...


Pete Hanson
good night

Telling the Truth II: Truth and Fact

From my son Pete Hanson's Facebook wall:

Paul Berczyk responded (8/4/11) to my comment about the Bible's contradictions: "Hmm, I dont think you can get any truer than facts. I mean, facts are facts. The bible used to be looked at as an encyclopedia or a textbook. As people became more educated with modern science they started questioning it. Answers like the one you just gave explained nothing except that you don't have an answer for the questions. The Christian religion wasn't taught the way you are talking until people started questioning. In fact it still isn't. No matter what our beliefs are the more educated society gets Christianity needs to come up with some better answers than that to exist."

I wrote: "You can get truer than fact. To think otherwise, means you have let the fundamentalists set the agenda. The "facts" of the Bible, however they are presented, are the "stage" on which humanity's relationship with God happens, not the relationship itself. As in human relationships, the God/Human relationship cannot be quantified and squeezed into "facts" --whatever they are. Faith is more like poetry or a symphony. Both are often truer than the reality they describe. So, the "more educated society gets" the better it should be able to see truth in that relationship, and not be bound to the single level of the so-called "modern" interpretation of what is fact and what is truth." (115 words)

Telling the Truth I: The Bible's Contradictions

I wrote the following on my son’s Facebook wall in response to a Bill Maher video in which Maher makes fun of Christianity by asking questions to (stupid) fundamentalist/rightist Christians, who are not "conservative" but reactionary.

I am tired with the so-called "Christian" Right setting the agenda and definitions for what it is to be a Christian. I posted the following on my son Pete Hanson's Wall in response to a Bill Maher video: "I am willing to give honest answers to anything about the Christian faith from the perspective of a progressive, non-judgmental Christian. I'll do it clearly in no more than 80 words. (I'm Pete's dad)

Pete Hanson wrote: "I'd be willing to say that he (Maher) could pick the Bible apart, with all it's contradictions. Are you saying there aren’t any contradictions?"

Sure, there are tons of contradictions. The Bible is a collection of human experiences with God over 3,000 years. It's written by hundreds of writers expressing their own understandings and insights. They, like most ancient writers, were after the deeper truth and meaning behind their encounter with God. The Bible is not an encyclopedia or textbook. The sun did not stop nor did a whale swallow Jonah; but if you're smart, you will discover that truth is truer than facts. (80 words)

Getting Ready

I think it may be time to restart this blog. I'll think about it during my upcoming vacation back to Minnesota.

Everyone Who Left Us

I clipped and saved this poem from The Atlantic Monthly in April, 2000 and have moved it from notebook to notebook. Over the years, I have returned to it several times. I find it’s message very powerful and moving. I am also fascinated by the line-rhyming technique the poet used in constructing it. The verse rhythm works so well with the mood of the poem and is technically incredible. I hope you will find as much in it as I have.

EVERYONE WHO LEFT US

Everyone who left us we find everywhere.
It’s easier now to look them in the eyes —
A gravesites, in bed, when the phone rings.
Of course, we wonder if they think of us.

It’s easier now to look them in the eyes,
Imagine touching a hand, listening to them talk.
Of course, we wonder if they think of us
When nights, like tonight, turn salty, warm.

Imagine touching a hand, listening to them talk—
Hard to believe they’re capable of such coldness.
When nights, like tonight, turn salty, warm,
We think of calling them, leaving messages.

Hard to believe they’re capable of such coldness—
No color, no pulse, not even a nerve reaction.
We think of calling them, leaving them messages
Vivid with news we’re sure they’d want to know.

No color, no pulse, not even a nerve reaction:
We close our eyes in order not to see them.
Vivid with news we’re sure they’d want to know
We don’t blame them, really. They weren’t cruel.

We close our eyes in order not to see them
Reading, making love, or falling asleep.
We don’t blame them. Really, they weren’t cruel,
Though it hurts every time we think of them

Reading, making love, or falling asleep,
Enjoying the usual pleasures and boredoms,
Though it hurts every time we think of them
Like a taste we can’t swallow. Their names stay,

Enjoying the usual pleasures and boredoms,
Then they leave us the look of their faces
Like a taste we can’t swallow. Their names stay,
Diminishing our own, getting in the way

At gravesites, in bed, when the phone rings.
Everyone who left us we find everywhere,
Then they leave us, the look of their faces
Diminishing, our own getting in the way.

— Steven Cramer

(The Atlantic Monthly, April 2000, p. 108.)

A wrong right is always left behind

A friend of mine recently sent me an e-mail telling me she had taken a comment I had made off her "Facebook" page. The comment was about Norm Coleman and the GOP hijacking democracy in the Minnesota senatorial race with Al Franken. It wasn't dirty or nasty or anything like that. It seems to me that Norm Coleman is trying to make the argument for dragging this thing out by saying that he's "trying to protect the vote of the little guy." It's all about the "little guy." The GOP? Norm Coleman? When has that ever happened? I found her action very surprising since she is such a strong Democrat and is not shy about that.

Anyway, she took it off her page because she has some relatives who are staunch "GOPers," as she calls them, who might get upset about my comment. She said, "I have to sort of do that delicate dance!" Now, by no means am I upset with her. (Who could be? She's a really great person). I'm just sad about the fear that is running over our society and smudging the face of honest discourse.

Below is most of my response to her:

Dear ...

I understand what you are saying about having to do a "delicate dance." It must be difficult for you to have to protect one group of friends from the thoughts and ideas of another group of friends.

That's a big job these days for anyone and it takes a lot of psychic energy. It's too bad your "GOPers" are unable to differentiate between the reasoned thoughts of one of your friends as distinct from your own thoughts. I believe that inability may be part of the birth defect they all seem to suffer.

Or maybe that's the way it is with those on the right — they think their political designation as "right" also applies to their political philosophies, which means that if they are "right" (in this black and white world of theirs), then the rest of us (those on "the left") must be wrong. After all, haven't left-handed people always been suspect?

If I were you, I'd give up the "dancing" with GOPers, but only after I told them that I don't have the power or energy to protect them any more.

Don't worry. I'm not upset with you at all. But on a national scale, I am just amazed and worried about the frightened and confusing spirits that have overtaken so many people on "the right" since the election. (And by "spirits" I do mean "spirits"--something outside of the visible world that is causing all the frantic lashing out and crazy thoughts.) We can talk more about that when I come home in July.

I never thought I'd find myself longing for the likes of Arnie Carlson, Al Quie, Dave Durenberger, Elmer L. Anderson, and other real Republicans. And in the same way, I also long for some rock-ribbed Democrats like Humphrey and Mondale who were not afraid to stand up and defend the progressive cause.

But you know that I am almost a socialist (ala the Danish variety). I hope that won't freak out some of your friends. But then, maybe that's okay. They may come to see that all socialists don't have fangs and want to take all your money.

Enough.

Peace,

Tom

Remember: Wilbur Wright did not have a pilot's license.

Rescue Us, Father

What follows is a Father's Day poem I wrote in the spring of 2003. In March, the U.S. had invaded Iraq and my son Peter was at the point of the invasion with the 3/7 Marines. We only knew of his location by reading the reports online from the "St. Louis Post-Dispatch" who had a reporter and a photographer embedded with the 3rd Marines.

At the same time as the invasion, I was in the middle of writing a series of daily devotions for Christ In Our Home and the text for the day was Isaiah 43:

But now thus says the LORD,
he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel:
Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by name, you are mine.
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you;
when you walk through fire you shall not be burned,
and the flame shall not consume you.
For I am the LORD your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.

Rescue Us
We await the homecoming of our son from war. He is a Marine,
Weapons company, boots on the ground, tip of the spear, target.
Forty nights and days and more from March through April and into May
We heard no word, no delay of distant voice, no letters, no sound.
Was he brave? Was he lost in the fog of war, frightened?
Was he the reason or comforter of the dying
    whose faces we did not see.
What we knew we gleaned only from electronic images,
   sleepless dreams,
And each day’s sad hope sustained from no somber Marine at our door.

Isaiah sang his song to his people exiled in that far country—
   exotic and prodigal.
He sang his promises to a people
    terrified by the same inflamed spirits—
Hot winds from sacred fires threatening to consume
    the air they breathed,
Hardened metals hurled like lightning through swirling red sand skies,
Dervishes, spinning, exploding up from hidden places none could see,
All threatening to conceal with soot and blood the very face of God.

On many days during the waiting, I read aloud Isaiah’s spirit song.
I read it for myself. I read it for my son and those who fought.
I read it for all caught in the cross-fire of our precision terror. Then,
Tears dropped on the page as witnesses to a father’s heartache.
God’s heart aches for the homecoming of his children. Now,
I know in such times there is nothing a father hopes for more.
They will come. They will come home singing. Redeemed.

My heart still aches for the 4,500 who have not yet come home and the fathers who still wait for their children.